How does amumu guarantee a win? ._.

espically the fact you went 1/4/14
I mean, I can see you supported/jungled. But you should have at least got a little more kills. Let alone your shit for CS haha, 82 in 33minutes :u
I usually have 100 a little after if not before 10 minutes
You won because of gragas

100 is impossible for a jungler around 10mins <.< (even laners have just about 80 max then)
also amumu doesnt needs kills to be effective, which is actually the point.. all u need is to land a Q on someone and then hit ult on all 5.
and at a certain point u dont need to farm, all u need is to get buff's and walk around with ur team..
so i dont see any problems there

Lies. You need to use the passive on jungle item to get more gold and be more fed. Of course you need to roam and take objectives with your team but please USE the STACKS.

And yes... 100 is impossible in 10 minutes for a jungler unless you're Master Yi and you tax the shit outta of your lanes.

As blub said, amumu's ult is one hella a gamchanger. I secured all the drags because of his w insane damage. And also I didn't get much cs or tax any lane because I wanted to feed them and not myself. Amumu's gets strong late game no matter what so that's why he is very easy for low Elo. Oh and not saying that gragas is a bad player but my 4 back to back ganks started his feed.

No, I never said archangel's was not viable. Manamune/muramana is not viable. Archangel's was nerfed on how often you could proc the mana stack, but they increased the mana gained from each proc, so the outcome was the same amount of time as before to fully stack it. Manamune was hit with just how often you could proc it, but the mana gained remained the same. So it increased the amount of time it would take to fully stack. In addition, archangel's has more possible people who can build it for effective use, practically every ap is capable of running the item efficiently. Manamune/muramana has practically 2 viable people to use it, maybe 6 or 7 if you wanted to get into highly unorthodox build paths.

Who has waveclear? Kha and Jayce are the only people with any real waveclear that would get a manamune (and coincidentally are the only 2 that are viable picks for it). And only Jayce might be the one who absolutely needs the item because of high spell usage, but Jayce in himself is a questionable pick right now. Kha would scale better into mid game without rushing the manamune for the increased damage because of how quickly objectives get called into play in the current meta.

There's no reason why you should cripple your entire team for the sake one item. Particularly considering that, even if it should be completed, you just need to get focused and all that gold efficiency means nothing. In the time the enemy team had to pull ahead because of better item efficiency, they get a better gold spread from being able to contest objectives, so more utility, damage, and tankiness spread out among their team, while you've suffocated your own team's capabilities to take objectives, now the enemy team literally has an item ahead of everyone because of it.


All this theory is assuming a perfectly neutral game, where nothing occurs except farm and minor objectives until your complete your manamune, which is about the time the game changes to mid game. No matter how it's hashed, it's just not effective to rush the item because it leaves your team vulnerable at one of the most critical points in the game.


And on the topic of snowball items, it only takes 3 kills to make either soto or mejai's gold efficient, so it's not even necessary to get the full 10 kills for max stacks.



Edit: also, mumu's win rate is astronomically high on the na servers right now. He was the highest win percentage champ in the first week of s4 for bronze, silver, gold, platinum, and diamond. Viktor had a better win rate in challenger, but that's just an anomaly.

how2proveigar

got a quadra and almost a penta... just didnt got the last W off
first death was when i made the quadra... was kinda tanking the tower while giving the last hit to someone... 13/1 ;( i had 1300 ap at the end, 260 through Q and 300 from rabadons. got rylais cause i needed to get some tankiness, didnt needed some magicpen.. dmg was high enough

Just changed my name to EJM! Finally, I'm inside my own flesh now. And only 13900 IP.

I do see your point about how long muramana stacks up. I forgot that it didn't stack up as quickly after the changes. That being said though, as long as your team has waveclear and you don't try to make fights happen, you can come out on top while using the item.


Also, with the logic of your quote above, the only way to win a game is to run an extremely strong early game team in order to get ahead early, making champions like ryze and vayne literally useless and not viable.

Except you then give up objectives that way. It doesn't matter how good your waveclear is if the enemy forces a turret. It doesn't matter how many fights you avoid if you lose objectives in the process. Deaths are ultimately a denial of resources, but avoidance is giving resources.

There's a reason why siege comps and dive comps are successful, and there's a reason why ryze and vayne aren't played often anymore. Siege comps rely on a strong early game, usually through increased range, and the inability to regen through the poke. Dive comps rely on strong early game as well, relying on early utility and base damages to capitalize on slow growth champions. Ryze and vayne are almost dead weight until they have items. All these examples show an emphasis on the early and mid game, something that manamune gives up too much ground on.

The only high profile team that runs late game comps anymore is CLG, and they routinely get wrecked because they can't REACH the late game in the current meta. Games routinely end around the 30-40 minute mark, which is at best the start of the late game. In fact, the most successful teams are capable of starting the midgame as early as 6-8 minutes in, when they start contesting global objectives. Manamune just doesn't keep up with that gameplay, and it can't resist against that gameplay.

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