[02:42] <ImmortalPig> yo box
[02:42] <box> ayyye
[02:42] <box> waz gud
[02:42] <ImmortalPig> why do rules A,B and C of offtopic exist?!
[02:42] <box> what are those rules
[02:42] <ImmortalPig> no useless threads
[02:43] <ImmortalPig> no idle chitchat
[02:43] <ImmortalPig> no what if/have you/games threads
[02:43] <ImmortalPig> (actually it doesnt say games but it seems games are banned anyway)
[02:44] <box> offtopic is a less serious version of discussion
[02:44] <box> it's somewhere between discussion and wibbles
[02:44] <box> useless threads is obvious
[02:44] <box> chitchat is for irc
[02:44] <box> and game threads are wibblish and fall under "useless"
[02:45] <ImmortalPig> so in other words, chitchat goes to irc and there's no particular reason for the rest of the rules?
[02:46] <box> [12:44:48] <box> useless threads is obvious
[02:46] <box> useless threads do not have a use
[02:46] <box> that's pretty clear
[02:46] <ImmortalPig> if they are posted they obviously have a use
[02:46] <ImmortalPig> what do you mean they don't have a use?
[02:46] <ImmortalPig> this isn't the tutorials section
[02:47] <box> useless threads have no room for discussion
[02:47] <ImmortalPig> that doesn't make them useless though
[02:47] <box> "post your internet speed" is useless because nobody discusses it, justs posts their speed
[02:48] <ImmortalPig> how is that useless?
[02:48] <ImmortalPig> people enjoy it and like to compare
[02:48] <box> [12:48:02] <box> "post your internet speed" is useless because nobody discusses it, justs posts their speed
[02:48] <ImmortalPig> so when you say useless
[02:48] <box> except no actual comparing goes on in the thread
[02:48] <ImmortalPig> you don't mean "has no use"
[02:48] <ImmortalPig> you mean "has no discussion value"?
[02:49] <box> if it has no discussion value, then it's useless
[02:49] <ImmortalPig> So if someone posts a thread "compare your internet speeds" and at least 1 person is discussing it/s fine?
[02:49] <ImmortalPig> At what point do you decide no one is discussing?
[02:50] <ImmortalPig> is it a problem if no one is discussing?
[02:51] <box> it's arbitrarily decided and would differ between local mods
[02:51] <box> then again, that's why there's more than one
[02:51] <box> if one closes a thread, op can ask another mod to confirm if it should be closed
[02:51] <box> is it a problem? yes, because useless threads are something that would belong in wibbles
[02:52] <ImmortalPig> There is no wibbles though, it got removed a while ago you know
[02:52] <box> if wibbles still existed, there'd be no issue moving a majority of "bad" threads there
[02:53] <box> yes, that's why threads are closed and not moved
[02:53] <box> there is no place for them to go
[02:53] <ImmortalPig> why can't they go in offtopic?
[02:54] <ImmortalPig> if someone made a "what if" thread for example, which is not useless but is disallowed in rule C
[02:54] <box> define "they"
[02:54] <ImmortalPig> why is it bad?
[02:54] <ImmortalPig> 'they' - threads that would otherwise go in wibbles
[02:54] <ImmortalPig> (obviously threads that are banned in wibbles like porn, spam, etc shouldnt be allowed)
[02:55] <box> what if threads? personally, i don't care about them anymore
[02:55] <box> as long as a thread creates a bit of discussion, it doesn't really matter
[02:55] <ImmortalPig> what constitutes 'discussion'?
[02:56] <ImmortalPig> I mean, the discussion subforum almost never has actual discussion
[02:56] <ImmortalPig> maybe 1 in 100 threads
[02:57] <box> i don't bother with discussion at all
[02:57] <box> http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=442498
[02:57] <ImmortalPig> well yeah, but I'm just asking about what you mean by discussion :P
[02:57] <ImmortalPig> there's discussion going on IN THAT THREAD
[02:57] <ImmortalPig> I mean, we are talking, exchanging words, exchanging ideas
[02:57] <box> sure, maybe your posts
[02:57] <ImmortalPig> it's a dictionary definition of discussion
[02:58] <box> the other posts aren't even acknowledging other posts
[02:58] <ImmortalPig> they acknowledged OP
[02:58] <box> replying to other people is generally a good sign of discussion
[02:58] <box> haha
[02:58] <box> that doesn't really count
[02:58] <ImmortalPig> so despite half the users in that thread replying to each other, there's no discussion going on?
[02:58] <box> that's more of answering a question than having a discussion
[02:58] <ImmortalPig> Why is that a problem?
[02:58] <box> http://forum.toribash.com/showpost.p...72&postcount=3
[02:58] <box> http://forum.toribash.com/showpost.p...12&postcount=5
[02:59] <box> http://forum.toribash.com/showpost.p...45&postcount=6
[02:59] <box> http://forum.toribash.com/showpost.p...45&postcount=7
[02:59] <box> these are not posts discussing something
[02:59] <ImmortalPig> Is there some overarching reason why threads without replys are banned?
[03:00] <ImmortalPig> well Trocher3's post is a direct reply to me, so I would have thought it was discussion
[03:01] <ImmortalPig> Another good example is http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=441268 where there is clearly 'dictionary definition discussion' going on
[03:01] <ImmortalPig> but it's closed because of the rules
[03:01] <ImmortalPig> Is there any reason why birthday threads, leaving/returing threads, chit-chat, what if, have you ever, games/surveys/questions are banned, EVEN IF they generate discussion?
[03:04] <box> hmm, i didn't know it was a japanese movie
[03:04] <box> so meh
[03:04] <box> birthday threads can only last so long until it's irrelevant
[03:04] <box> as you can see, tarlan closed that thread, so ask him about it
[03:05] <box> same with leaving threads
[03:05] <box> we already talked about chit-chat, what if, and have you ever threads
[03:05] <ImmortalPig> Is it a problem for a thread not to last forever?
[03:05] <box> no, it's not
[03:05] <ImmortalPig> then why not let it die off naturally?
[03:05] <box> but since it won't, it's eventually closed
[03:05] <box> it becomes irrelevant after a while
[03:05] <ImmortalPig> why close it if it will die off anyway?
[03:06] <ImmortalPig> what do you mean irrelevant?
[03:06] <ImmortalPig> irrelevant in relation to OP?
[03:06] <box> consider the birthday thread
[03:06] <box> a few days after the birthday, there's no point to keep posting
[03:06] <box> you say to "let it die off naturally", but it doesn't
[03:06] <box> people will continue to post in an irrelevant thread
[03:07] <ImmortalPig> if people are still posting, then it's because they want to keep posting, right?
[03:07] <ImmortalPig> they still feel that it is relevant
[03:07] <ImmortalPig> but besides that, is it a problem if someone posts in an irrelevant thread?
[03:07] <box> yes, it becomes useless
[03:08] <ImmortalPig> it's still possible to continue a discussion in an inrrelevant thread
[03:09] <box> probably so
[03:10] <box> that's not always the case
[03:10] <ImmortalPig> So shouldn't you instead of outright disallowing whole swathes of threads, look for the few threads that somehow remain active without any discussion?
[03:10] <ImmortalPig> which is kind of paradoxial
[03:10] <ImmortalPig> and even if they are active without discussion, is that a problem?
[03:11] <ImmortalPig> I really don't see what's so bad about a thread without discussion
[03:11] <box> again, that's what wibbles was for
[03:11] <ImmortalPig> I don't think that's a valid reason, wibbles was for EVERYTHING that is currently being posted in offtopic AND it's subforums
[03:12] <ImmortalPig> if you disallowed everything that would have been posted in wibbles
[03:12] <ImmortalPig> then no one would be allowed to post in offtopic
[03:12] <ImmortalPig> When wibbles existed that was discussion, rapid threads and wibbles
[03:14] <box> that's not what i said
[03:14] <box> threads without discussion went in wibbles
[03:15] <box> not the other way around
[03:15] <ImmortalPig> not quite
[03:15] <ImmortalPig> wibbles covered anything that didn't fit in the discussion subforum
[03:15] <box> correct
[03:15] <ImmortalPig> which is everything that is now in offtopic
[03:15] <ImmortalPig> plus some spam
[03:15] <box> threads that would be in off-topic today had no other place than wibbles
[03:16] <box> but they were allowed because it was wibbles
[03:16] <ImmortalPig> well yeah, but what you said was <box> again, that's what wibbles was for
[03:16] <ImmortalPig> essentially what you are saying is "it's not allowed because it's not allowed
[03:16] <box> threads with nothing to discuss
[03:17] <ImmortalPig> it's an axiom right? we can't apply it anywhere else
[03:17] <ImmortalPig> we can't say "well this thread would have gone in wibbles, lets remove it"
[03:17] <ImmortalPig> because it only applies to threads that are not allowed in the rules
[03:18] <ImmortalPig> threads that are allowed would go in wibbles, threads that are not allowed would go in wibbles,.
[03:20] <box> [13:17:36] <ImmortalPig> we can't say "well this thread would have gone in wibbles, lets remove it"
[03:20] <box> yes we can, and we do
[03:20] <box> because wibblish threads aren't allowed
[03:20] <ImmortalPig> but ALL the threads are wibblish -_-
[03:20] <box> it seems like you're asking for a concise definition of what "wibblish" is
[03:20] <ImmortalPig> sure
[03:22] <box> that would probably vary from person to person
[03:23] <ImmortalPig> well, regardless of the actual definition, why should something being wibblish warrant it being disallowed?
[03:23] <ImmortalPig> is there a problem with wibblish threads?
[03:23] <box> yes, they're useless
[03:23] <ImmortalPig> instead of saying wibblish shouldn't you just say useless then?
[03:24] <ImmortalPig> and on that note instead of saying useless shouldn't you just say "no active discussion"?
[03:24] <box> yes
[03:24] <box> they're pretty much interchangeable
[03:24] <box> at this point, at least
[03:26] <ImmortalPig> ok, so now we come back in a full circle
[03:26] <ImmortalPig> when I asked <ImmortalPig> is it a problem if no one is discussing?
[03:26] <ImmortalPig> you replied
[03:26] <ImmortalPig> <box> is it a problem? yes, because useless threads are something that would belong in wibbles
[03:26] <ImmortalPig> essentially what you are saying is
[03:27] <ImmortalPig> "having no discussion value is a problem because they have no discussion value"
[03:27] <ImmortalPig> so, is there a problem with not having discussion value?
[03:27] <box> of course there is
[03:28] <box> because it's the point of off-topic
[03:28] <ImmortalPig> "it's the point of off-topic"?
[03:28] <box> yes
[03:29] <box> Welcome. Off-topic is a board meant for less-than-completely-serious debate, idea sharing, news linking, et cetera. All these things which get posted in Discussion, but which most members that participate in Discussion don't really feel that they are suitable to a forum of the type Discussion currently is (Read: Debate). This means you can post some stuff you find interesting or new or cool
[03:29] <box> here.
[03:29] <ImmortalPig> Isn't the point of off-topic literally just everything that doesn't belong in discussion?
[03:29] <ImmortalPig> Yeah
[03:30] <box> not "everything"
[03:30] <ImmortalPig> Well none of the current threads fit that description if you want to take it like that
[03:30] <ImmortalPig> I doubt there's a single example in the first 10 pages
[03:31] <ImmortalPig> Oh lol, actually my thread on page 3 is an exact example of that
[03:31] <ImmortalPig> but to be fair, it was moved from discussion subforum
[03:34] <box> well, that's a different argument
[03:35] <ImmortalPig> It's not really, the point is that the line is draw at a fairly random point regardless of offtopic's description
[03:38] <box> what we're discussing now would be a great idea for an off-topic thread that i'd be happy to participate in once others do the same
[03:38] <box> if you're up for it
[03:38] <ImmortalPig> sure
[03:39] <ImmortalPig> I will post then
[03:39] <box> great